This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity. For the complete interview, you can access here.
Kristine Dizon: Hello, my name is Kristine Dizon and I'm the CEO and founder of the Modern Artist Project. Today, I'm with Dr. Julia Heinen who is committed to ensuring participation in the arts is available to all and works diligently to advocate for schools. Her research and leadership projects focus on underrepresented constituencies, and she works to ensure that everyone who wishes to participate in the arts as a vocation or avocation has the opportunity to do so. Julia is currently a professor of clarinet and Director of Community Engagement at California State University, Northridge. Thank you, Julia, for joining us today.'
Julia Heinen: Thank you, Kristine, for the invitation. I really appreciate it.
KD: I just talked about the work that you do, but could you tell us a little bit more about your journey in music and how you got here in regards to your passion for sharing music with all different types of communities?
JH: I started like many of us did in band as a 10-year-old and chose, well, I actually chose the flute, but my dad bought me a clarinet and told me it was a flute, so I ended up playing the clarinet, which I am very happy about. I did a lot of things in junior high and high school, played percussion in marching band, played bass guitar in the jazz ensemble, played saxophone, played bassoon, anything that I wanted to do or the band directors would ask me to do. I was like sure, I'd be happy to learn that. Then I went to college and I majored in math as an undergrad, but I had wanted to keep playing. So I played in the orchestra at the University of Minnesota and also in the wind ensemble. Then when I did a master's degree at the University of Michigan, I went into music, but I actually applied as both in math and music and decided I would go into music at that point. I then finished a doctorate at the University of Minnesota and also did an artist diploma, our performer certificate at Northwestern University.
KD: Wow, that's amazing. I think it's really interesting how you have a math background also and how you find that complementing the things that you do musically?
JH: I think a lot of musicians also have a very mathematical mind, and how it works for me in music is just things make sense because music is a very ordered art. There's what I like to tell my students is, there's the craft of learning an instrument, so the craft of playing the clarinet, and then there's the art of playing music. The craft is only to serve the art so that there has to be this organization about how you do and approach music, but that organization and that control allows you to be entirely free when you're performing and creating. So, the craft is meant to serve the other, and it should never exist on its own.
KD: I think it's amazing how you're able to draw these types of connections together, and I think it's really valuable for listeners to understand, also because of the fact that a lot of time music gets isolated into this little corner or this little box as its own separate thing that, you know, doesn't relate to anything else, whereas it actually does relate to a lot of the things that we experience in our lives today. So when we think about those qualities, you mentioned a lot of different things about, you know, structure, about being able to see the organization in music, and also the different qualities.
When we take the idea of music and putting it in a setting for social impact, how do you feel our society is doing today in regards to that?
JH: Well, it depends on what kind of society we're talking about. So when we're talking about students or people who can afford to participate, either they have the time to participate or they have the money to participate, I think that's very beneficial. But there are a lot of people who don't have the money to participate in the arts, don't have the time to participate in the arts, and really that's a problem with our society. I notice it more in this country than I do in Europe. In Europe, it seems much more that everyone participates and it's not broken down into that you can afford to do something, like for example, afford to take private lessons, or you can afford an instrument, it's like you can participate in exploring your creativity, and it should be a creative endeavor that we want everyone, no matter what their age, to participate in.
So we also seem to, in our society here, and I would love to be able to solve this, is to stop having places for people to participate once they're out of school. We do have community groups, which are great, and I would love to see 20 times the number of them, but I would also like to see the place where somebody who said, "Oh gosh, I always wanted to do that in school, I always want to play saxophone in school," well that they, as an adult, could go and do that where it didn't cost them anything. I would love for it to just be part of, "Hey, this is what I want to explore.
KD: Yeah, and I think that's really amazing in regards to being able to create and provide opportunities. And I think that's something really valuable too because a lot of the time, you know, when we talk about studying an instrument, you go through the motions, you take all the classes you need, and then it's like you get towards the end, and it's like, "Okay, I want to do something else with my life," which is completely okay. But then we get to the point where, "Well, what else can I do after university or college?" Right? And I think that would be an amazing way if we're able to have, you know, the government funding to be able to curate projects like this. I think that would be really great. And what's great also, as you mentioned, a lot of different things in regards to the benefits, you know, just what community benefits do you feel that music has to offer within the vast variety of ages that you mentioned?
JH: Oh, tons! First of all, I mean studying music creates a community and a sense of belonging among the people who are participating. It also creates a sense of community among the people who benefit from the final product or the products as they're being created, such as public concerts. It's a place for people to gather and participate in something they have a common interest in without it being something they're doing for a living or for any other reason than to spend time with others. So, really, music promotes expression and creativity, but also builds a sense of community with others. I notice that music students at the university are often the first ones to volunteer for projects like collecting food for our food pantry because they understand the sense of community and want to help. I love being around musicians because they just want to give back to society.
KD: No, that's really great. That's also one of the things that I love about being around musicians too. The idea of giving back to the community is powerful. Within your position at the university, I know you do a lot of things like teach master classes and reach out to different communities. How do you see these types of struggles that students face, like accessibility in higher education?
JH: They face a lot of struggles in higher education. At my university, for example, we used to allow students to come with an undeclared major, which is what most students should be doing. They should be exploring what fields interest them and how they can see themselves in the world in the next few years. But we stopped doing that, so a student has to come with a declared major now. That's hard for someone who's usually 17 years old when applying to university. Most of them have not turned 18 yet, and they already have to pick a field to study. I think we're doing them a disservice.
In my field of music, we require an audition for students to get in, and that can be a problem. We should be able to take a look at someone's transcript and see if they've participated in band or orchestra for years and let them try if that's what they're interested in. But most music schools stop entrance because of an audition. That can be a problem for some students because they may not have had the benefit of a private teacher to prepare for an audition, may not be able to afford repertoire, and may not know how to do it. We need to revamp the way we think about K through 12 and higher education in this country. We should not have students making a career decision at 17 and discovering later that they made the wrong choice. It's a long time to change majors, and we should find a way to fix this system.
KD: Yes, I agree with you. And I know for a fact that I have some students who are also applying for colleges and they encounter the same questions and doubts. "Am I mature enough to make this decision that I am going to major in this and this is what my life is going to be?" You know, being... I mean, these are really big things. And I think going back to what you mentioned about having an undeclared major and saying, "Okay, well, we could try this, being able to experiment with different fields and seeing what fits best." You know, it's always about that type of experimentation that I feel we kind of sometimes miss in that regard. So what would be the proposed solution that you would have for that in regards to being able to resolve these things that we encounter that actually do have big impacts for students?
JH: First of all, we need to solve it at the college level for music. We are still training musicians as if everyone's going to get a job in an orchestra. And if you watch the statistics, Juilliard, one of the preeminent conservatories in our country, boasts a 2% acceptance right into that career field. Well, that is a pretty shocking number. So why we are still training musicians as if they are 19th-century performers is a mystery to me. And that line between classical and non-classical is so blurred now that we should be allowing students to come and find their voice, whatever that voice is in their art, and we should be applauding that voice. That's part of the art of music. We can help them with the craft of learning an instrument or learning instruments, but we then need to say your art is free, you can do whatever you want.
I mean, I had no idea in college when I went to college that first of all, I'd have an interest in contemporary music that wasn't even... I never even thought about that. But the more I got to know composers and the more pieces I played of my composer colleagues, I was like, "Well, this is really interesting." But I was allowed to find that voice for myself and discover that hey, I actually really like this. It's not like playing Mozart that's been figured out for me by any number of people. But to figure out contemporary music, it's a different thing, and I love the challenge of that. It's not that Mozart or Brahms is not challenging. It is challenging, but in a different way.
So I actually think we need to remake music majors in higher education and allow students to be creative with, first of all, their program of study, and then their final project. Right now, it's like, "Okay, classical recital that you give." And it's interesting to watch how music is usually the last one, the last field to want to change. We're still hanging on to 100 years ago.
KD: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I mean, you're really preaching to the choir here because of the fact that some of the sentiments that you've talked about, this idea of training like someone, yes, it's important to be great at your craft, but the world is so different now than it was even 30 years ago, 20, even 10 years ago. It's changed so much, and I think you're really onto something here of being able to understand and be aware of these things. In a sense, we are aware, we know it exists, but it's just a matter of being able to take action to apply these things. I think that's something you've really hit on here.
So one of the things that you talked about was this idea of inspiring creativity in regards to having students become curious in regards to what outside of this bubble that we've created for ourselves, what are other possibilities would you suggest for young professionals today in the realm of music or art in general?
JH: You mean to pursue as a career?
KD: Yeah, not just this idea of an orchestra musician, right? But being able to say, "Okay, well, what can we do to help take that person's strength?" Because with private lessons, you get to know a person and things like that, and being able to guide them and help them find their path.
JH: Yeah, first of all, we need to be the people who are saying when a student says, 'Oh, I'd like to explore this,' our answer should always be 'Yes, let's do that.' And then you, as the person who's going to be guiding them, need to find out, 'Okay, what do I need to know? How do I need to stretch myself in order to mentor this student?' There are too many pieces nowadays where a student has to be on stage, possibly in costume, possibly moving and dancing, possibly having created some visual work of art that's part of the work of art. We should be embracing that with all of our students. And the answer when a student says, 'You know, I'm not sure, one of my friends asked me to play this piece of music that they wrote,' our answer to that student should be, 'You should say yes to your colleague because we need to be encouraging them to stretch themselves.'
I think it's about five or six years ago, I taught the same sonata, Op. 5, to five different people in one semester. And so I thought, 'Okay, I'm just going crazy teaching the same piece of music.' So the next semester, when we were doing repertoire, I told all the students, 'Okay, you've got to find a piece that you're going to learn. It's written in the last 20 years, and you need to come back and tell me about it, and then we're going to learn that.'
Well, first of all, I learned a ton of pieces because there were things that I just didn't know. One of my students found this great piece that I then appropriated and I've played at several conferences because it's such a great piece. But I would have students come in and they were excited about teaching me what they found and how they really wanted to play this piece of music.
Like one of my students, I never thought would do anything. So he found a piece by Mason Jones that was for clarinet, piano trio, and electronics. And it was a great piece of music. I mean, so they got very excited about that. So I've kept that in my pedagogy. I like students to find things and teach me about them because, you know, honestly, there's so much music being written. I don't have the time to hear it all and to experience it all. So now I've got 14 or 16 other people looking for music for me. So, uh, it's really been great. Plus then it's like, 'Wow, I have to learn this,' you know, and so I spend a lot of time learning music. How can I help them with this? And then they'll come in and do something, and I'll say, 'How are you doing that?' 'Oh, I figured out this,' and I'm like, 'Great, well, let me have that.'
So we need to be much more open and realize that every student is a unique individual, just like every teacher is unique, and they need to be nurtured to keep that individuality and creativity going. That we're not recreating ourselves, we're freeing them to influence society.
KD: And I think that's very beautifully put, Julia, in being able to hear the story of your students and how they got turned on about music, and how they were in a position where they could share something with you. And a lot of the time, I feel like it's like a two-way street, right? It's not just like, "Oh, you must do X, Y, Z if you want to be successful," but ultimately it's also up to the student if they want to be able to search these things, become more proactive, and develop the skills of becoming individuals or independent human beings. Whereas, when they graduate after their four-year degree or after their master's degree, they're not going to feel like they can't do anything outside of the institution. And that's something that I feel like is really important to hear, and also to recognize that fire, especially when a student is in a position to be able to teach something, whether it be to their professor or to a group of people. They're going to master it actually a lot better because they're in a position of responsibility and accountability to know what they're doing. Right? Right?
JH: Yeah, it's a well-known educational theory, Bloom's Taxonomy, about teaching to others being the highest form of learning.
KD: Exactly. So when we talk about this idea of underrepresented communities, and I've got to learn from you also about the work that you do at your university, I know for a fact that with composers today, there's been a lot of talk in the last couple of years, especially of performing compositions by women, compositions by other composers from underrepresented communities. And I wanted to ask how you address that in your teaching or at your university in the school of music.
JH: So I have students play works by women composers and works by composers of color. However, there's a group that I feel just in the past couple of years we've really ignored, which is, I teach at a state university, which is a land-grant university. The land which many universities, all universities that are land-grant universities, was taken from indigenous people. So I actually think that that's my next project, is to explore music of indigenous composers or composers who have had a background either from themselves or from other connections. But to really celebrate that we are at a university where the land belonged to indigenous people of this country, and we need to celebrate that and make sure that that is something we are featuring. I'm hoping at some point the clarinet society, the clarinet association will have a conference that's celebrating the native people of North and South and Central America. I mean, that would be wonderful.
KD: No, that would be amazing! And you know, being able to understand, you know, maybe there might not be something written for the clarinet, but being able to take melodies, or you know, popular melodies from those cultures and being able to adapt it in a way, you know, that it can be a clarinet composition. That could be really, really interesting for people to learn about. And I feel like, in a sense, to not, I don't believe that a lot of people know the history of, you know, state universities, of, you know, how the land became acquired to be able to, you know, build these institutions for learning. Honestly.
JH: That should be in everybody's first class when I go to a university. We need to, I mean, my university has really come a long way with that. It is celebrated at every public university and private meeting. That happens on a university, there is an acknowledgement of the land grant, which I applaud that we are now doing. And I think this started maybe about 10 or 15 years ago. I mean, of course, it's on our web page, but now we actually acknowledge it publicly.
KD: That's amazing. I think that's really amazing, and I'd be interested to hear more about how, you know, there are other ways we could celebrate that too, you know, not just with compositions, but also perhaps musicians, also, you know, student composers who identify, you know, as indigenous, being able to, you know, have types of conferences that celebrate that. I think that these are really great things. And I wanted to ask your thoughts about this actually, uh, within some universities. I can't speak for all. Uh, some of my colleagues have told me that they have it as a mandatory requirement because of the fact that, you know, okay, you have your Mozart, you have your Brahms, and then you have a mandatory piece that you must select that is either by a female composer. You know, it could be also indigenous, someone of color, in their programs. So I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on making that as a requirement in programming and things like that.
JH: Sure. I think that's great. I hesitate to make something a requirement, but I think that would be terrific. Anything we can do to celebrate. We should be careful about the opposite side of things. I don't want anybody to be the token anything. So if we're making a requirement and it causes things to become unequal, then I would like everything to be equal. We need to make sure that women are equally celebrated, just like in society that women are equally paid. We haven't reached that goal yet. It's an interesting component, but anything that moves us forward, I'm there for it.
KD: I think that's amazing. This idea of making progress is important. The fact that we're having these types of conversations and dialogues is progress to a better place. When we look at auditions, whether it be for an orchestra or higher education to teach at a university, what are your thoughts about the current situation of how composers are represented?
JH: Well, let me separate it out. So, the orchestral world hasn't really moved much, if any. So the same audition lists that are current now were current when I was in school. Well, that's, and they were current when my teachers were in school, that we haven't really come to embrace the fact that the orchestral world has a responsibility to celebrate new works that they have previously not been programming.
More orchestras are moving towards programming, which is great. I love that. That's progress. I haven't seen any progress on audition lists. I still see the same pieces, and sure, they could hire somebody who can play this, this, this, and that, that's part of the standard repertoire, but why not put something on that was written in the last five years for that orchestra?
So that would be interesting. What I loved when I was watching online, the Nielsen competition is that they had, I was watching the flutes, and they all had to do a contemporary work, and one of the finalists did a work that she had written, and I was like, "Wow, this was just...I mean, she's a stellar player." So that is where we should be going, celebrating that kind of creativity and that kind of forethought with asking for the next level.
There are two separate things for higher education. One is that we need to get away from auditioning for a music degree, but I would like to see, if we're going to have auditions, those auditions to be whatever the student chooses to bring in, and that we should be able to, as professionals, judge a level of talent and a level of commitment to what they're doing, not based on things that we're asking them to play.
So I would like to see those auditions open when you're auditioning for a college job. It's pretty unusual for them to tell you what you're going to play. But I've been on enough committees where someone comes in and they'll play a program, and then somebody on the committee will say, "Yeah, but they played all contemporary music." It's like, that maybe that was the program that they had ready. And you know, you don't get a lot of time to prepare for a college audition, you get a call and, "Hey, can you come five days from now?" So if that's the program they have ready, we should be accepting it. But that comes as part of the conversation, which it shouldn't be happening.
So we all need to keep moving forward and making progress on this. But right now, it seems to me, the orchestral world seems to be dragging behind here.
KD: Yeah, yeah. I hear you in regards to those things. And it's so funny because when you're in the motions of doing preparations for these things, you're having to learn all the notes and you're having to learn all the technique, and you're just trying to get through all of the things that you need to learn. Sometimes it's just a matter of opening our eyes, ears, and brain in a way of saying, "Wait, I think this hasn't been changing for the last, you know, however long." And from the sounds of it, from what you've mentioned, it hasn't changed for quite some time. How do you feel that we could encourage that within the orchestra world? I mean, I feel like there's some flexibility, and within higher education, there is that awareness, and I think they're trying to address it in the way that they can. But in regards to the orchestra world, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about that.
JH: It would probably take orchestra committees discussing this, but it also would take some leadership from the musicians' union to say, "Hey, wait a minute. We actually have, if you get in this particular orchestra, whatever that is, in addition to playing Beethoven's 6th and Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade and Capricious Espanol and things like this, we also have a chamber music series. We also have a contemporary music series. We also have a movie night where the orchestra is going to play the soundtrack to a movie." Well, I mean, they need to be putting some of John Williams' Harry Potter excerpts on those auditions because that is incredibly hard music. So why not add some of this because an orchestra's time is not just simply playing great master works. It is also doing all of these other things.
So there should be a move towards, we actually need musicians who are very versatile in what they do. I mean, I just saw the Minnesota Orchestra concert, and in the encore, both bassoons and the clarinet and trombone had to stand up and play a little jazz thing. And it was like, "Wow, this is pretty clever." But when does that get displayed at an audition? It doesn't. So it should be, what are all the parts of the job that you're gonna have to do when you get this job? We also do it at the university. I mean, we have somebody play a solo recital when they're coming. Very seldom do we have them play chamber music. Every so often we do. But a big part of being a university faculty member is doing your service to the university and the community. And we don't ever ask about that, nor do we ever say, "Hey, have you shared your research with the grants committee? Are you a person who can actually take charge of a disparate group of faculty and administrators and give out $10 million for research and creative activities?" So there should be some kind of way we're testing, or we're exploring what that person's qualifications are for every aspect of the job that they're gonna have to do and then realize that hey, nobody's gonna have all of these things going down, but are they actually open to learning new things?
KD: Yeah, and I think that's, uh, at least for me, I feel like that would be a very important quality because a lot of the time, you know, I don't know about you Julia, but at least throughout my career, I've seen some people who have reached a point in their education and they're like, "I'm done, alright" in regards to, "okay, I don't need to learn new things, I just have to continue doing the things that I'm doing." And I feel like that's such a hindrance, especially within the profession, within the career, within the communities that we're working to serve. So, being able to connect these ideas, because we've talked a lot already about many aspects of the profession, you know, with college students with, you know, how can we make things more accessible? How can we be more inclusive? You know, this idea of diversity, this idea of awareness when we talk about the digital world that we live in, and the idea of the portfolio musician, which is a term that, you know, is becoming more prevalent these days. What would you advise people, or what types of advice would you give to someone who's wanting to do music as a career or do a career in the arts within the digital age? And what would you tell them?
JH: Let's see, in the digital age? Well, everybody needs to know how to create what they need to create for whatever it is, so they need to know how to add videos, they need to know how to have a resume, they need to know how to put these online so that they're not like, "Hey, let me mail your resume." They need to know how to do everything like that. They need, in a lot of cases, to know how to use Photoshop and create promotional materials. But what they also need to do is make sure that at the forefront is actually connecting with the community. So, the community, I see some musicians now whose communities are them without ever being live and interactive, that they're completely digital artists and they do not connect either in person or online with live people.
Well, that's a pretty disturbing thing. So all of the aspects of being a musician in the digital age need to include connection with live people, either actually in person or live over the internet. So when you're going to broadcast the concert, you know, I mean, I love watching during COVID, I got very used to watching concerts online. And I mean, it was disturbing for a while when it was people just putting up, "Oh, here's recordings of me online," and it was them alone in a hall. Uh, and that I was like, "Wow, this just isn't the same thing." But when it was a live-streamed concert, it was great. I'm so in admiration of the Minnesota Orchestra who still has continued to do their live streams on Facebook.
This is great, it reaches a much more huge audience, and then there are people who cannot, well, like for me who can't get to Minnesota that often to see them in person, I can actually listen to them online, which has been great. So, there has to be an awareness of connecting with the community, no matter what aspect of music or art you're doing, you have to make sure you really connect with the community.
KD: No, this is really great. In regards to all of the aspects that you mentioned, I think our internet connection briefly glitched for a moment, so I just want to restate a little bit of what you had mentioned. Being aware of the uses of technology, such as uploading videos, editing videos, and being able to make your own content, whether it's promotional materials for concerts or something you're organizing yourself, is important. Being able to do these things while being mindful of the fact that when we make art, it's not just about oneself, but also about dispersing it and sharing its meaning with other people is crucial. So, no, this is really great. Regarding the things that you do for your research, could you talk a little bit more about that? I know we've been talking about a variety of different things in regards to the aspects of the profession for making music more accessible. Could you talk more about that with what you do in California?
JH: Sure. So, some of the big projects that I started a couple of years and a half ago, I actually put a name to. I've been working on little aspects of it, but it's what I call an issue of access. We should have access to anything that a person, a student coming into higher education wants to do. They should have the ability to explore that, and that decision should not have been made prior to them coming. So if they want to major in math because that's what they're interested in doing, we should accept them then into that major with that particular requirement if their high school required three years of high school math.
Similarly, we should be doing this in music too. If you participated in music in high school all four years, we're going to take you, but that would then require a high school to require four years of music. But we're missing a lot of students who don't think they have the ability to do that. We should also allow for students who didn't participate in a music program at all because their music program didn't allow them to have a garage band or because they had to take AP classes prior to school at zero period, and the band also met at zero period, so they had to make a choice. However, they could still keep up and do it. We should be giving more positive messages to students, rather than saying they can't do something. We should allow them to try it and discover what they want to do. For example, we have a former student at my university who came as a music major but realized about a year and a half in that this is not what he wanted to do. He had taken a graphic design class and thought he loved it.
He eventually switched to graphic design and is now a faculty member. We have to allow for that to happen. We have a system set up where the answer is no before it's, "Hey, let's actually take a look at you as an individual." We just had a student who wanted to come back and do a music major about 20 years after high school. She had gone to school for maybe a semester, but she didn't have very good high school grades. My university initially said they couldn't take her because of her high school grades, but that was 20 years ago. Maybe we should take a look again at what kind of a person she is now and what her goals are. We've been working at my school to redo several things, but it's not until somebody points it out that we realize that many of our communications are pretty unfriendly. This is to let you know that you're on academic probation. You know, and we've, we've stopped that now. We don't say probation anymore. At my university, we've changed that word because it, wow, it just is a frightening word.
KD: Yeah, because you would associate it with some sort of criminal activity, so you would think, "well, it's kind of criminal that you're not doing what you're doing academically. So therefore we're going to label it probation.
JH: You know, hey, you're on the, you know, we could have had a different name for it. You know, you're on the high-touch academic plan now, which means that we're going to check in with you twice a week and make sure that you're going to class and getting your homework done. Is there any distress? Because we end up with students who are afraid to ask something they don't know because they think somebody's going to say, "what do you mean? You don't know this?" And there are people who would say that, you know, you didn't know that you were supposed to fill in the blank rather than saying, "Yeah, let me help you with that." You know, we can find a solution for this.
KD: Yeah. And I think, you know, you touch on a lot of points here. You know, the fact that there's some people who feel impostor syndrome because of the fact that, you know, when we think about music, they're like, "oh, wow, I'm not a virtuoso, so I'm not like, you know, I'm not a Mozart, so this isn't feasible." Whereas that's actually besides the point. It's the idea that, you know, music is not only just building community but also developing soft skills, like how to communicate with people, make decisions, address problems, you know, in an ensemble and things like that. And sometimes we forget about those soft skills because we talk about the ultimate final product, you know, amazing concert, I feel great, right?
So, uh, and these are things too with what you've mentioned, you know, the fact that we don't appropriate. We're still trying to appropriate that in society of saying, "it's okay if you don't know," and people sometimes view that as like, "you don't know, so you're dumb." You know, it's not that. It's like, you don't know, but I can find the answer for you, you know, type of thing, or being able to find being proactive in finding those answers. And uh, you know, I think you've really touched on some points here, and I applaud you for the efforts with this project, and I'd be interested to learn more about it as it continues to progress and the research that you've put into this for the time that you've done it for.
JH: Thanks. Yeah, I'll look forward to seeing how things change. It's certainly not going to change quickly, but any progress we can move forward would be terrific.
KD: No, that's definitely true. So, on that note, Julia, I want to thank you for joining us today and for sharing your experience and thoughts with us. We look forward to seeing the amazing things that you continue to do for our community. And I'd really love to hear more about your project as it continues to grow.
JH: Thanks, and thanks for having me on and allowing me to share my thoughts on this. Thank you.
Kristine Dizon is a multi-faceted performer, teacher, writer, author, linguist, and entrepreneur. She is Founder & CEO of the Music & Language Learning Center, The Modern Artist Project and co-founder of the Gran Canaria International Clarinet Festival and American Single Reed Summit. She is an artist for Uebel Clarinets and Silverstein Works. Learn more at www.kristinedizon.com.